The MVP and the Cy Young Award

I thought I’d give 32 a break and try and write one of these things. I hope your Plumber’s Hell is just about over.

Just about the only interesting thing that has come out of the ’11 Dodger season (other than following the dropping attendance of course) has been the possibility of the NL MVP and Cy Young Awards going to Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw.

It dawned on me the other day that the Dodgers’ poor record, while a hindrance to Matt and the MVP, could actually aid Clayton’s Cy bid. Especially in a year when the Phillies’ vote will be split between Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, the voters might well have some sympathy for Kershaw toiling for a crummy team, while Kemp is fighting uphill against the “How Can He Be Most Valuable” sentiment.

Any decent baseball fan can cite Andre Dawson’s ’87 great stats (with a last-place club) against Kirk Gibson’s good stats (with a Series-winning team) in ’88 in arguing whether either one really deserved it. And every now and then we’ll have a season in which the MVP debate brings the club into it, but never the Cy. Why? Obviously, it’s the “Most-Valuable” thing. Here’s my solution: The Player of the Year.

“Whoa!” you say. “The other sports have MVPs.” “There’s already enough awards in baseball.”

I say, “Why not?”

The Cy is only for pitchers, one in the AL and one in the NL. Make the MVP only for position players, and keep it one in each league. After all, how “valuable” can you be if you’re only on the field once every five days? OK, there’s another argument, but let’s leave it for another day.

The Player of the Year (the Associated Press names an offensive and a defensive Player of the Year in the NFL) would not involve the fortunes of his team. I’d make both position players and pitchers eligible for it. I’d even think of making only one for all of MLB.

Of course, I know of the inherent “danger” of threatening to remove some of the debates. Baseball fans love to debate more than any other fan of any other sport. But I think, especially if you keep it to one PotY (yeesh, that’s a horrible acronym), there might even be more debate.

But what’s better, is that the MVPs would indeed be Most Valuable and the Player of the Year would be quite impressive.

This Day in Dodgers History

August 27, 2005 – Jeff Kent becomes the first player to hit 300 homers as a second baseman. The Dodger infielder, who has surpassed Ryne Sandberg’s total of 277 last September, is the major league leader at this position with Joe Gordon holding the American League record with 246 round-trippers.


140 Responses to The MVP and the Cy Young Award

  1. 32and53fan says:

    Thanks Eric. My intention when starting this blog was to make it the “peoples” blog, not an official marketing and spin tool for Frank McCourt. Everybody (the regular commentators) has editor privileges and can edit their own comments and create new posts. If you don’t, let me know and I will add you to the list.

    This was an excellent post Eric. Others have made great contributions also.
    I was hoping Northstateblues, who always has a lot to say would join us here, but I guess he feels it would be disloyal to the Dodgers or something like that. His comments would make great posts too.

    I am reading this at 3:30AM with paint on my hands and ulcers on my legs from using knee pads. The strap just cut into my skin behind my knee through my jeans. I just took 3 ibuprofen to help the pain in my back after another 14 hour day. The good thing about finishing a job and having to drive 32 miles home at 2:15AM is that the freeway is wide open. I just set the cruise control, turn on some music, and sit back and admire the brand new reflectors and lines on the 101 freeway guiding me home. It is nice to finally get to relax and catch up with the conversation.

    I am just about done with the bathroom(s) renovation project. After the plumbers did their thing, my bathroom was totally destroyed. They were supposed to put everything back together with me just doing the painting. Unfortunately, they did not finish everything in a professional manner. Maybe it was a blessing in disguise as I learned how to grout ceramic tile, cut and install small pieces of tile that the plumber/handyman conveniently overlooked. I also had to install 34′ of baseboard molding with many back cuts needed with a coping saw and sandpaper to match the contour of a matching piece.

    The owner of the company was so anal to get his money that he sent his worker early to finish installing a toilet and a vanity/sink even though I told him I needed an extra day to paint. I did manage to paint before he installed the stuff but unfortunately I picked some light green shade that looked better on a two inch card than on the wall.

    After some soul searching, I decided that I did not want to subject my tenant to an awful color so I bit the bullet and bought the two colors I saw on a brochure – antique white (light cream) for the walls and pure white for the ceiling, window trim and mirror/light trim. Kudos to Home Depot for allowing me to return my partially used paint. Of course having to deal with two different colors made the job a lot more difficult and time consuming. Especially after already working 8 hours and starting the painting at 10 PM.

    Because the toilet and vanity were installed, it took a big effort to mask and cover those items in plastic sheeting. It is the preparation that gets you. The genius handymen did a half ass job putting drywall where lath and plaster used to be. It was indented 1/4 inch so I had to build it up step by step with Spackle and dry wall mesh tape. That took a couple of days plus another day to wait for it to dry so I could put on the finishing touches then sand it down to a semblance of a new wall.

    Thursday, the boss did not like that I deducted a couple of hundred dollars for materials out of my pocket from the insurance payment of $5000. His worker did not want to finish hooking up a new P-Trap and the other pipes and connections from the sink to the sewer line. He reluctantly went with me to a hardware store to show me what to buy but he demanded the final payment and split. I had to do it myself. It is not rocket science but it does take a little time if you don’t do that every day. I get a little nervous when having to cut a piece of ABS and cement it into the new drain/cleanout fitting in the wall. If you get it wrong, a whole new hassle begins.

    All that is left to do is caulk the molding in the main bathroom, put the horizontal blinds back, find a matching machine screw and washer to finish installing the Thermador wall heater, repair and reinstall the accordion door from the bedroom to the bathroom and inspect the job for any missing details.

    Maybe after all that is finished, I can go back to being a Dodger slug. It’s not as much fun, but a lot easier on my back and legs.

    • JhallWally says:

      Hi’Ya 32. Glad to hear things are coming together and your bathroom saga is ending soon. Well, finding a good contractor can be hard. I’ve used Angies List and that has worked out well for me. Also the Better Business Bureau. I hope you will be reporting your bad experience with these handymen.

      Anyway, its almost over and the Dodgers are on a roll.

      • 32and53fan says:

        It was really like a deal with the devil. The plumber discovered that the 55 year old cast iron main sewer line under the house was bad, but I also had a water leak behind the shower that rotted most of the wood under it and around the toilet. He said my insurance would cover it. Not his plumbing cost to replace everything, but the expenses necessary to restore everything after they cut open the floor and wall to get access to the pipes. He got the water mitigation company to come and treat the place like it was a major hazardous waste disaster.

        Before I knew what was going on, the team ripped out the vinyl floor of the main bathroom, tore the entire floor and sub-floor of the master bedroom bathroom and removed a 3′ by 2′ section of oak hardwood floor from the bedroom. He did all this, in my opinion, to jack up the cost of restoring all of it. We agreed that he would fix the plumbing and restore everything but the painting if he got the insurance payment.

        The insurance company paid industry standard rates to put everything together by skilled tradesmen. I got my plumbing repaired, a serviceable but inferior job by the plumber/handyman, three weeks of hell for my tenant, and one week of busting my ass to fix all the mistakes and complete the job myself. I didn’t have the money for the major plumbing bill so I accepted his way of doing the job. I did get him to allow his worker to install ceramic tiles, which the tenant already had, instead of a cheap vinyl floor. He saved on materials costs but the labor took longer.

        The end result is a much better situation. New waste pipes under the house and a much better floor with new toilets and a vanity/sink. BTW, the toilets were free after the water agency rebate. Check out if you want to trade in your old toilet and save water. My 1956 toilets used 7 gallons per flush. The new ones use 1.28 gallons.

        • JhallWally says:

          Far out!!! Sounds like it snowballed into a heck of a project. That’s usually how those repair/renovation projects work out. Glad its over and you are happy with the outcome.

  2. grizzy says:

    32 and 53- You have my heart felt sympathy. Our bathroom over haul was similar, ibuprofen included. I’ve always said De Leon was not looking for the fountain of youth, just that big bottle of advil.

  3. trublu4ever says:

    Simple…..there should be an MVP and Player of the Year.

  4. Hi everybody.
    Just want to say, I agree that adding a “Player of the Year” award would solve the situation and give the MVP a better meaning. I always felt that the MVP should go to the player who is more valuable to his team, than anyone else in the league is valuable to their team. In other words, the team would be far worse without this player. He makes them better.
    Of course it should be for a team that ends up with a decent final won and loss record but doesn’t necessarily have to make the postseason. The question should be “how important is this player to a particular team?

  5. I would like to add that a last place finish doesn’t necessarily rule out a decent finish. It depends on the won and loss record. If the Dodgers end up at the percentage they are right now a few games under the .500 mark, I’d consider it decent.

  6. Nellyjune says:

    Fabulous thread Dodgereric!!! I agree about the awards as well. There is a difference between all of those you mentioned. They are having a similar debate on “Intentional Talk” on the MLBNetwork debating whether a pitcher deserves to be MVP (Justin Verlander is their example).Your solution allows that to happen IMO if you add Player of the year.

  7. Nellyjune says:

    32and53 – I am sorry to read about all that you are going through. Hopefully, you don’t have endure this much longer.

    • 32and53fan says:

      Despite all the pain, expense and hassle, being able to learn all the new construction skills and end up with a beautiful result has given me a sense of pride in the accomplishment. My rental house is much nicer now.

      Now if I could only do as well on my own house that needs a little more than just TLC…

  8. JhallWally says:

    Wow, what a night. Got home late and saw we whipped on the Rox with a good pitching performance by Lilly and the offense continuing to mash. What’s up with these guys. I’m hoping that we can spread some of this new found mojo on Billz this afternoon.

    It’s almost unbelievable, but, this team actually has a legitimate shot at finishing at .500. A couple of weeks ago, I would not have even thought of such a preposterous utterance. The way they have been playing lately, who knows. With 32 games to play, we need to go 20 and 12 to finish at .500. That’s a .625 winning percentage. Yes, it is a tall order, but not impossible. Just keep winning each series and it can be done.

    I’m not sure what has gotten into them but whatever it is, I hope they can keep it going today and the rest of the season.

  9. JhallWally says:

    Hi’Ya Dad/Eric. Outstanding post. Makes alot of sense. Also, thanks for the attendance status report form last night.

  10. JhallWally says:

    Today’s Dodgers Lineup:

    Miles 2B,
    Loney 1B,
    Kemp CF,
    Rivera LF,
    Ethier RF,
    Blake 3B,
    Ellis C,
    Carroll SS,
    Billingsley P

  11. lbirken says:

    Interesting talk about MVP and Cy Young. I have always felt the MVP should go to the player who contributes the most to his team’s success and without whom the team would clearly not have attained that success. By that definition a pitcher could be the MVP. But because there is an award only for pitchers (The Cy Young), I think it acceptable to limit the MVP to non-pitchers.

    So does Matt Kemp qualify as an MVP if the Dodgers have a lousy season and finish way down in the standings? Where would the Dodgers be without him?

    So maybe we do need a player of the year instead of the MVP. That way, the player is recognized for his accomplishments but not penalized for how his team did.

    • lbirken says:

      I did forget to bring up the other issue I heard on the radio in conjuntion with discussion about who should be eligible to win the MVP, and that was about designated hitters. The argument went (starting) pitcher winning the MVP because he is on the field only once every 5 games, what about awarding it to a DH who never plays defense? Clearly a player like Matt Kemp not only can beat you with his offense and speed but also his defense. Of course, Kemp does not have to compete with a DH but the AL players do. Is that fair?

  12. trublu4ever says:

    WTF….they are showing the Tigers game here!

  13. selltheteam says:

    Not many people in the stadium – more empty seats than full ones!

  14. selltheteam says:

    Over the past five games, Loney is .619/.636/1.048

  15. Nellyjune says:

    Verlander is going for his 20th win so most people would want to see that then a battle for 3rd place in the NL West Division. I love watching that guy pitch!! He makes a strong case for MVP because 20 games without him playing, the Indians or the White Sox are winning that division.
    Jason Repko sure seems happy 🙂

  16. trublu4ever says:

    Billz is throwing way too many pitches…not going to be around very long.

  17. vl4eccjr says:

    Pitch count! Billz won’t last long at this rate. . .

  18. trublu4ever says:

    From Ken Levine: Here at Dodger Stadium. Place is empty. Fans must think the hurricane is going to hit here. 😉

  19. Nellyjune says:

    The Twins aren’t exactly tearing up their division. They are in 4th place, 17 1/2 games out, but Target Field is pretty well packed. So, when Frank, Ned and our media (except Vin) try and make our empty stadium issues about poor play and not the owner, they are full if crap.

  20. trublu4ever says:

    FU Billz!

  21. JhallWally says:

    Crap!! Bombingsly showed up today. He’s starting to remind me of Tomko. Geez!!!

    • Nellyjune says:

      LOL!!! Is that name new for Billz, or have I just missed you using it?

      • trublu4ever says:

        LOL….we need an updated list of Jhall & Enchanted’s trademark names

      • JhallWally says:

        LOL!! Its a new one. Lilly has been pitching very good so I couldn’t justify using the Lillingsly tag. Plus, Billz reminds me alot of Bombko unfortunately. Both have/had good stuff and just don’t seem to trust it or just can’t quite get the location right. Always seem to be nit picking and nibbling at the plate.

  22. lbirken says:

    Well, it was bound to happen with the way Bills has been pitching today. Sorry to see him struggle so much lately.

  23. vl4eccjr says:

    I guess the Rox just have his number. . .

  24. trublu4ever says:

    To make matters worse…we are being no hit by the old-fart Millwood!

  25. vl4eccjr says:

    Just sitting here watching the LLWS. I really feel for the Billings, MT team. They played so well in the tournament until today. Everything has gone south for them today against the Huntington Beach team.

  26. trublu4ever says:

    Good grief! Now, I’m glad we aren’t on TV!

  27. Nellyjune says:

    …..meanwhile, Verlander has a 4-2 less going into the 6th inning.

  28. vl4eccjr says:

    I’m amazed he made it through six.

  29. JhallWally says:

    Damn!!! Billz actually pulled off a quality start if you take away Carrolls error and the unearned run that resulted. It ain’t great, but, he managed to keep us in the game. I thought he was gonna get hammered and be out of the game in the 3rd inning.
    Now its time for the offense from the last 3 days to show up. C’mon, it’s freaking Millwood. Score some runs!!!!

  30. trublu4ever says:

    Love the Rockies’ sloppy play!

  31. trublu4ever says:


  32. trublu4ever says:


  33. JhallWally says:

    A rare rbi for Carroll. WTG Jamie!!!
    Now its up to our bullpen.

  34. Nellyjune says:

    Let’s go Dodgers!!! Watching Tigers/Twins on tv, but watching Dodgers via iPhone 🙂

  35. JhallWally says:

    Holy Cow, Billz is still the pitcher of record and is in line for the win.

  36. vl4eccjr says:

    Billz owes these guys big time for getting him off the hook.

  37. trublu4ever says:

    Damn you, Kuo!

  38. Nellyjune says:

    Multi-tasking is awesome!!! Now NASCAR has just been added to the list!!

  39. Nellyjune says:

    Uh oh!!! That wasn’t good!!

  40. JhallWally says:

    You gotta be shittin’ me!!!

  41. vl4eccjr says:

    Kuo just doesn’t have it anymore.

  42. Nellyjune says:

    Congratulations to Justin Verlander for his 20th win!!!! Over this last year, I have definitely changed my thinking of always thinking offense (batting) to thinking more defense (pitching/fielding).

  43. DodgerZona says:

    Wow sky’s are real dark here in Az…..Of course nothing like Hurricane Irene……Severe T-Storm here

    You all have a great night

  44. trublu4ever says:

    Andre 😉

  45. trublu4ever says:

    35,537 paid….no way, Jose! I even think it will be way under Dodgereric’s calculation!

  46. JhallWally says:


  47. JhallWally says:

    Well, one more crack at them and the top of the order. C’mon Dodgers!!!!

  48. trublu4ever says:


  49. JhallWally says:

    Holy Loney. Way to freaking go James!!!

  50. Nellyjune says:


  51. Nellyjune says:

    It’s Tatoo!!!! Let’s go Justin!!!

  52. Nellyjune says:

    Double Rats!!! 🙂

  53. Nellyjune says:

    Oldbrooklynfan, and anybody else on the east coast – Be careful out there!!! Irene looks pretty nasty still!!

  54. vl4eccjr says:

    Woo hoo!
    WTG MATT!!!

  55. JhallWally says:

    Wah-Hoooooooooo!!!! WTG Matt!!!! MVP!!!!

  56. So what times the game today?

  57. Nellyjune says:


  58. JhallWally says:

    SWEEEEEEEEET!!!!! WTG Matt!! MVP!!!

  59. Can you believe this offense, lately?
    Back from the dead.
    Clutch hitting Galore.

  60. JhallWally says:

    Wow!! Just saw the replay of Matts home run. Not many people there. Looked like only 11 or 12K.

  61. Nellyjune says:

    Jason Schmidt was just on the Gnats game because he was honored today with his name on the Wall of Fame outside AT&T Park. He told the reporter he is a Gnat at heart. Another Ned fiasco being honored somewhere else while the Dodgers foot the bill.

  62. trublu4ever says:

    I’m going out on a limb here and now….if the Giants lose their game tonight (it’s now 1 -1) I predict we will finish the season ahead of them! They absolutely cannot hit the ball and, I don’t care how good their pitching is supposed to be…you still have to score runs!

  63. dodgereric says:

    From TJ just now:

    “Ask Ethier if he should still be playing on a right knee that will require off-season surgery, and he says, “If you’re expecting me to do what I’ve done in the past, no, there’s no possible way I can do that right now. You can say tough it out and give it your best shot, but it’s not going to happen.

    “It’s only going to get worse from this point. I’ve dealt with it all season long, but as the season goes on my body wears down. That’s just the way it is — I keep getting put in the lineup, so what am I supposed to do?”

    “Worse yet, and can it get any more around here, why would the team’s general manager even hint at the possibility that Ethier might be faking an injury?

    “What am I supposed to be concerned about?” General Manager Ned Colletti says. “That he has those numbers [since the All-Star break], that he’s hurt or contends he’s hurt?”

    “Contends he’s hurt?”,0,7353739,full.column

    That tears it. Ned Colletti, you are a worthless, backstabbing sonuvabitch mother-fucker. If I were to see you and your worthless SOB of a boss on the street, I just may kill you first.

    On to the LA Times story on the game today:

    “The first-pitch temperature was 97 degrees, which no doubt contributed to another painfully small crowd in a nationally televised game at Dodger Stadium.

    “The official attendance was announced as 35,537, which was so ridiculous as to be laughable. There was maybe half that, which no doubt pleased a small group outside the stadium that asked fans to boycott the game. Official crowds are supposed to reflect tickets sold.

    “This crowd was so small, you could actually hear individual fans yell out encouragement, or critiques, at players. It was a spring game in a bigger setting.”

    And if I ever heard of a lead-in…………

    Game 67 attendance (2010): 44,896
    Today’s attendance: 35,537
    Difference from 2010: -9,359
    Estimated no-shows: 8884
    Estimated turnstile attendance: 26,653
    Greater than last year = 9 / Less than last year = 57
    12th straight game of negative attendance

    Games less than 30,000 this season – 9
    Games less than 30,000 in 2005 – 2010: none
    Last game was 9/14/2004 – 29,704

    Lowest attended game of the year: Game 8 – 27,439
    Largest single game drop: Game 18 (55,662 – 28,419 = 27,243)

    2010 attendance (67 games) – 3,001,436 (44,798 average)
    2011 attendance (67 games) – 2,471,42 (36,887 average) #10 in MLB
    Percentage attendance drop 2010/2011: -21.4452

    Drop of 530,004 total
    Average drop of 7911
    Extrapolated for 81 games – 640,751
    Projected 2011 final attendance – 2,987,851
    2010’s final attendance – 3,562,318 (#3 in MLB)

    Next game’s (68) attendance in 2010 – 45,164

    Crowds less than 30,000 in 2010: none. 2011: 9
    Crowds 30,000 – 39,999 in 2010: 13. 2011: 41
    Crowds 40,000 – 49,999 in 2010: 43. 2011: 12
    Crowds 50,000 – 55,999 in 2010: 7. 2011: 2
    Sellouts (56,000) in 2010: 4. 2011: 3

    • trublu4ever says:

      Colletti is a piece of shit!

    • vl4eccjr says:

      I had no idea that Dre was hurting more than his ingrown toenail. This explains alot!
      Once again Ned’s response is that of a total imbecile!
      Please excuse my frankness, but this shows that Ned is much more than a worthless piece of shit. That’s too kind!
      He’s once again gone to show what a totally inept fucking douche bag of a human being he really is!!!!!

  64. Nellyjune says:

    ……and once again, we wonder why he wants out (if that’s the case as so many believe these days). Ned is such an asshole!!!

  65. When is the media going to finally turn on Ned the way they have on Frank? If ever there was anyone that deserved it, its Ned. Whatta prick. Its one think if Dre’s doggin it ala Princess Drew, but quite another if he’s playing when he shouldn’t.

    Ned’s a real piece of… work. A totally classless, ignorant, backstabbing, full of shit piece of work.

  66. Nellyjune says:

    Whether hecwants out or not, Andre has worked too hard to be dogging it, don’t ya think? It’s more like he’s playing hurt because Ned thinks he’s faking it? Like Matt last season, he’s trying to prove Ned wrong. It certainly makes sense if he is playing hurt.

  67. trublu4ever says:

    I think Ned is faking it…….he wants us to think he is capable of being a GM!

    I am so pissed off right now. Thought it was bad when we were just blowing games. But, Ned trying to blow up the team is unacceptable!

  68. trublu4ever says:

    Just this year alone he gives us Uribe and GrrRear, then, gets rid of Trayvon.

  69. Nellyjune says:

    After all the stuff Andre has done for this organization, Ned says stuff like this? What person thinks this will actually help a team? I thought it was bad enough what he said about Matt last season, but this just proves he is such a fucking asshole of a person, not to mention a despicable GM. Just livid right now!!!

  70. Nellyjune says:

    Eric – weren’t you the one who mentioned Andre was wincing as he got to third base last night?

  71. trublu4ever says:

    Dodgereric ~ I think the Times is in need of another one of your fantastic letters!

  72. Nellyjune says:

    Still so pissed off!!! The only good acquisition Ned has had (Andre), and he just blew that too! Well, if Andre wanted to stay a Dodger, Ned just might have convinced him otherwise. If Andrevwas thinking it, Ned just mad it a for sure thing that he wants out.

  73. selltheteam says:

    In the Dodger world of WTF

    “Utility infielder Jamey Carroll was placed on waivers by the Dodgers, according to a baseball source who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was unauthorized to speak on the matter. ”,0,4675902.story?obref=obinsite
    Why would Carroll be placed on waivers before they get rid of Velez?

    Also, in the world of WTF:

    James Loney has been on fire the past six games, and, not coincidentally, the Dodgers have won five games in a row.

  74. vl4eccjr says:

    Ned has become a very aggressive type of cancer that will spread, undermine, and completely desroy this organization from the inside out! He’s a pathetic, conniving, underhanded, slimy, and diabolical fucking idiot. There’s not a player in the league who would want to be with a club with this type of virus.
    How in the fuck to they expect anyone to stick around with shit like this?
    This CANCER must be removed ASAP, or the club is doomed! Ned has to get the hell out of this organization! First & foremost. Priority one, even over McCrook!! This bullshit he’s pulling is just putting more fuel on the fire that’s burning this franchise into oblivion!
    He needs to be run out of the entire league on a fucking rail!!
    Sorry for the expletive filled rant, but just hearing of this after it’s been known internally for quite some time, & not made public has just sent me ballistic!!!!!

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